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About your Forum => Front Page => Topic started by: Norn on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 09:01AM

Title: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Norn on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 09:01AM
They just don't get it, do they. It isn't to do with 'comforting someone' or 'asking for a date'.  It is a power thing, where a man in a superior position to a younger female thinks it is 'just banter' to make sexual remarks or touch without permission. 
It can happen in any workplace.  Women have always found it difficult to get support for this, they are the ones more likely to lose their jobs.  It is really good that so many women are feeling able to come forward now.
John Humphrys on the Today programme seems to have a particular problem with understanding this.  Given his age and position in the BBC, one can wonder why.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Lila1410 on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 09:02AM
I thought he was just acting as "devil's advocate", I'm sure he gets it.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 09:27AM
I think John Humphrey's is one of the best broadcasters around, he looks at both sides.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Griffon on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 09:35AM
What's John Humphreys done? I always thought he was rather good at riding the ever more rapidly shifting sands of social convention. 
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 11:30AM
Do we know for certain that all the women who have 'come forward' are telling the truth? 
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 11:38AM
Fallon has stated himself, in his resignation speech, that his behaviour fell below certain standards so why shouldn't we believe the women who have come forward?  I'm surprised more haven't spoken out.  Maybe they will.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 11:58AM
But we don't know for certain.  Why did none of them, not one, go public at the time?  Odd.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Griffon on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 12:05PM
I keep asking myself the question: why now?   OK. Duh! It's the ripple effect of Weinstein, stupid! But is it really that simple? Was Weinstein all that was necessary to light the blue touch paper and blow parliament sky high and to drive this media frenzy?  Or is there something else going on?  Is this just part of the post Brexit power struggle?  Are people driving personal agendas or settling scores? What the hell is going on, and is there more to it than the Weinstein effect?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 12:07PM
Bit of all those perhaps Griff.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 13:17PM
Agenda Griff. All settling personal scores or why come out now and coincidentally all at the same time.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Griffon on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 14:00PM
That too. I suspect there are a multitude of reasons. It just needed to right spark to set it all ablaze.

Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Norn on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 16:07PM
I keep asking myself the question: why now?   OK. Duh! It's the ripple effect of Weinstein, stupid! But is it really that simple? Was Weinstein all that was necessary to light the blue touch paper and blow parliament sky high and to drive this media frenzy?  Or is there something else going on?  Is this just part of the post Brexit power struggle?  Are people driving personal agendas or settling scores? What the hell is going on, and is there more to it than the Weinstein effect?
Some of them did, and were told to keep quiet or it would affect their job.  These were often young women just starting on their careers. And you sort of expected that sort of behaviour from older men on positions of power over you. You were just one of the 'benefits'  -X-.
I was lucky in that it never happened to me at work, and I could cope with crass approaches elsewhere.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Griffon on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 16:13PM
Some of them did, and were told to keep quiet or it would affect their job.  These were often young women just starting on their careers. And you sort of expected that sort of behaviour from older men on positions of power over you. You were just one of the 'benefits'  -X-.
I was lucky in that it never happened to me at work, and I could cope with crass approaches elsewhere.
Yes. I have no argument with the idea that such behaviour is wrong nor that it is high time such things were rooted out. It's the why now? question that interests me.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Norn on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 17:03PM
I think it is the Weinstien effect. And more women feel able to speak out

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/925755058410741760
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 18:16PM
If it happened in every case - and we have no way of knowing whether it did or not.  Why did no-one say anything publicly at the time?  And a few risqué comments hardly make them the victims they're being portrayed as.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 18:22PM
If it happened in every case - and we have no way of knowing whether it did or not.  Why did no-one say anything publicly at the time?  And a few risqué comments hardly make them the victims they're being portrayed as.

They seem to want to be seen as victims don't they.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 23:16PM
We do not know the facts. Maybe they are victims?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 23:35PM
Do we know for certain that all the women who have 'come forward' are telling the truth?


No.

Do we know for certain that all the men who are accused are telling the truth ?

No.

If I had been sexually abused and not let it publicly be known at the time, I think it would have been because in that day and age when men seemed to wield power over women, a woman would maybe have been told to get over it, or she would maybe have been too embarrassed to say anything.

And the reason that these women are now coming forward is maybe something to do with having strength in numbers, ie, all in together girls..

Yes, there may be a few who are jumping on the bandwagon, but there may be a lot more who have been abused, and why should we not believe them now ? 

The longer they have kept all this to themselves the harder I think it would be to bring it all out now.

They have felt shame long enough for no reason at all.

Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: jock364 on Sat 04-Nov-2017 | 23:56PM
 :tick: :tick:
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 00:40AM
They weren't all shy, shrinking violets I'm sure, so why didn't one, just one of them say something publicly at the time?  You say 'that day and age' but some of the allegations only go back a few years, not to the dark ages.  I find it hard to believe that someone like, say Angela Leadsom, wouldn't be confident and strong enough to tell any man who crossed her to sod off or she'd have his balls for castanets!
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Lila1410 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 07:25AM
Didn't Leadsom only speak up now in support of what other women were saying?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Griffon on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 07:39AM
Or maybe she hoped Fallon would be replaced by a Brexiteer.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 08:56AM
It is becoming increasingly clear that many DID say something at the time but went through the whole gamut of useless responses from simply being told they were being silly little women manning a fuss over nothing to blatant threats about their career prospects.

What I find particularly concerning about some of the reactions is the rush to defend the alleged perpetrators and belittle the women claiming misconduct.

And that is now......when we are assume to have reasonably equal status.

And people ask why women have not said anything until, as Aron wisely observes, it becomes a high profile moment in time and there is safety in numbers.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 09:00AM
Or maybe she hoped Fallon would be replaced by a Brexiteer.

AL is vile and showed herself as such during the PM election that wasn't, but why are we forgetting it is Fallon who is the guilty party here, on his own admission, and the extent of his failings seem to be growing daily.

Do we really have to have Brexit brought into this too!


Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Myra on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 09:44AM
No.

Do we know for certain that all the men who are accused are telling the truth ?

No.

If I had been sexually abused and not let it publicly be known at the time, I think it would have been because in that day and age when men seemed to wield power over women, a woman would maybe have been told to get over it, or she would maybe have been too embarrassed to say anything.

And the reason that these women are now coming forward is maybe something to do with having strength in numbers, ie, all in together girls..

Yes, there may be a few who are jumping on the bandwagon, but there may be a lot more who have been abused, and why should we not believe them now ? 

The longer they have kept all this to themselves the harder I think it would be to bring it all out now.

They have felt shame long enough for no reason at all.

 :tick:
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Myra on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 09:45AM
It is becoming increasingly clear that many DID say something at the time but went through the whole gamut of useless responses from simply being told they were being silly little women manning a fuss over nothing to blatant threats about their career prospects.

What I find particularly concerning about some of the reactions is the rush to defend the alleged perpetrators and belittle the women claiming misconduct.

And that is now......when we are assume to have reasonably equal status.

And people ask why women have not said anything until, as Aron wisely observes, it becomes a high profile moment in time and there is safety in numbers.
:tick:
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 10:02AM
As I said previously, AL is no shrinking violet.  I am sure that had she wanted to deal with the matter at the time she could have done most effectively.

Someone telling you they know somewhere you could warm your hands does not make you a victim.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 10:05AM
She's not a victim, she was reporting his bad behaviour which he acknowledged himself and that's why he's gone.  Another woman has shared her story of Fallon 'lunging' at her after a meeting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5050637/Journalist-claims-Michael-Fallon-lunged-her.html
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 10:21AM
The word victim has been used in the media and on here.

Where there has been an actual physical assault - lunging at someone and trying to kiss them for instance, and other forms of physical contact, why, again, did not one of the complainants go straight to the Police if they were so disturbed by what happened, instead of discussing it with other people who had no authority or inclination to do anything about it?

Maybe if just one woman had gone to the Police, and the offender had been dealt with, it would have given the message to other men that such behaviour wasn't acceptable?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Norn on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 12:01PM
Some women apparently did go to the police, and were given the same brush-off. I'd be very surprised if this type of male behaviour wasn't also endemic in the Police until recently.
(George Gently's sidekick Bacchus ? )
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 12:06PM
Some women apparently did go to the police, and were given the same brush-off. I'd be very surprised if this type of male behaviour wasn't also endemic in the Police until recently.
(George Gently's sidekick Bacchus ? )

Not in my experience of nearly 30 years.  Male and female officers got along just fine.  Plenty of laughter and joking with each other and the sense to tell someone there and then if they went too far, and then move on.  There were however plenty of occasions when one was glad of a comforting arm across the shoulders, or a warm hug from a colleague.

Wasn't that a tv programme and wasn't it set in the early 60s? :hmm:
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Myra on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 12:11PM
Some women apparently did go to the police, and were given the same brush-off. I'd be very surprised if this type of male behaviour wasn't also endemic in the Police until recently.
(George Gently's sidekick Bacchus ? )

Of course it will and has happened in the Police.  They are no different from any other profession.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 12:13PM
Of course it will and has happened in the Police.  They are no different from any other profession.
 

I don't think anyone said they were 'different'.  However Life on Mars was set a long, long time ago . . .

Not in my experience of nearly 30 years.  Male and female officers got along just fine.  Plenty of laughter and joking with each other and the sense to tell someone there and then if they went too far, and then move on.  There were however plenty of occasions when one was glad of a comforting arm across the shoulders, or a warm hug from a colleague.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 12:13PM
Not in my experience of nearly 30 years.  Male and female officers got along just fine.  Plenty of laughter and joking with each other and the sense to tell someone there and then if they went too far, and then move on.

That's the key isn't it, tell someone firmly and let them know you mean it. I have worked with a lot of men and worked away from home when I was only 18 for two years, sea, sun,sand and a fun atmosphere so plenty of flirting going on but you set your own bar immediately as to what was acceptable and what wasn't and never did I find myself in an unpleasant situation.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 12:16PM
That's the key isn't it, tell someone firmly and let them know you mean it. I have worked with a lot of men and worked away from home when I was only 18 for two years, sea, sun,sand and a fun atmosphere so plenty of flirting going on but you set your own bar immediately as to what was acceptable and what wasn't and never did I find myself in an unpleasant situation.

Exactly.

Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 12:59PM
The experience and perspective of a strong confident person is not the only experience and perspective to be had. Society is there for everyone, including the weak and less confident, in fact one might expect it to be there particularly for the weak and less confident.

I am saddened by the dismissal, even derision and distrust of the weak and less confident when they eventually find the courage to say something.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 13:17PM
How do you know they are 'weak and less confident'?  Surely that's just an assumption?  AL doesn't strike me as being either.  Nor do the actresses in the Weinstein scenario
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 13:24PM
The experience and perspective of a strong confident person is not the only experience and perspective to be had. Society is there for everyone, including the weak and less confident, in fact one might expect it to be there particularly for the weak and less confident.

I am saddened by the dismissal, even derision and distrust of the weak and less confident when they eventually find the courage to say something.

No-one is saying they were strong and confident, I certainly wasn't at 18 and away from home, friends and family but I knew myself what my standards were and what self respect was so I deflected any unwanted advances with as firm no. Men do take notice when they know you mean it.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 13:35PM
No-one is saying they were strong and confident, I certainly wasn't at 18 and away from home, friends and family but I knew myself what my standards were and what self respect was so I deflected any unwanted advances with as firm no. Men do take notice when they know you mean it.

It sounds to me as if you're talking about dogs.  Yes, a firm no does work, I've found.


Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 13:37PM
How do you know they are 'weak and less confident'?  Surely that's just an assumption?  AL doesn't strike me as being either.  Nor do the actresses in the Weinstein scenario

I didn't mention AL

My comments were about people in general who are making complaints.

You put forward your view on which my comment was based as I see it as just the view of a strong and confident person and that is not the only view there is.

People who are neither strong nor confident have experiences and perspectives too which are just as valid.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 13:41PM
No-one is saying they were strong and confident, I certainly wasn't at 18 and away from home, friends and family but I knew myself what my standards were and what self respect was so I deflected any unwanted advances with as firm no. Men do take notice when they know you mean it.

Well then, you were clearly strong and confident enough to make a stand. There are some who are perfectly aware of what is right and what is wrong but do not have the strength and confidence to handle a difficult situation.

They are not to be dismissed and derided. They need support and good for them if they now are finding the strength to stand up and complain at last.

Is it not possible for those lucky enough to be strong and confident to have a little compassion for those who are not and who often suffer indignities and difficulties because of it?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 13:41PM
No, you didn't mention AL, I did as an example.

You have no idea whether I am a strong and confident person though, any more than I know you are - which illustrates my point that we don't know if all complainants are weak and less confident (and they can't all be surely?) and that's the reason they haven't come forward before, but are now doing so en masse.

Having encountered and helped many victims of real - and often horrific - sexual abuse, I am fairly sure that  I've got plenty of compassion for those who deserve it
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: AliceB on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 13:42PM
It sounds to me as if you're talking about dogs. Yes, a firm no does work, I've found.

 :)

Perhaps all women should carry a rolled up newspaper just in case.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 13:45PM
No, you didn't mention AL, I did as an example.

You have no idea whether I am a strong and confident person though, any more than I know you are - which illustrates my point that we don't know if all complainants are weak and less confident (and they can't all be surely?) and that's the reason they haven't come forward before, but are now doing so en masse.

I didn't say they all are. But clearly they are not all strong and confident people either, or they would have dealt with it at the time and, if knocked back by those saying not to make a fuss, or that they were being silly, or threatening them with losing their careers, would  have made an even bigger fuss, not put their heads down and kept quiet.

Why do you think these people didn't speak publicly at the time?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 13:49PM
So if they are not all weak and less confident, then presumably some of them are strong and confident - so why didn't the ones who are come forward before now?

I don't know why they didn't speak publicly at the time - that's exactly the question I've been asking for a while now
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: AliceB on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 14:00PM
I didn't say they all are. But clearly they are not all strong and confident people either, or they would have dealt with it at the time and, if knocked back by those saying not to make a fuss, or that they were being silly, or threatening them with losing their careers, would  have made an even bigger fuss, not put their heads down and kept quiet.

Why do you think these people didn't speak publicly at the time?

I think one of the reasons might be that they were able to let the matter go at the time it happened, perhaps because they were strong and confident women, but decided to speak out (or in Leadsom’s case speak quietly asking for anonymity) when it became clear that their experience was only one of a string of similar experiences ‘enjoyed’ by other women over the years and the male perpetrator looked likely to get away with it because other people, some of them women, frown on other people making a silly fuss about such things.

There’s an article in today’s Observer which throws more light on the Fallon issue.


(There appear to be two threads on this theme by the way)
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 14:06PM
There are indeed two threads on this topic.  However, the other one is within the 'members only' part of the forum whereas this one, as it says at the top of the page, is public and open to everyone
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 14:23PM
Well then, you were clearly strong and confident enough to make a stand. There are some who are perfectly aware of what is right and what is wrong but do not have the strength and confidence to handle a difficult situation.

They are not to be dismissed and derided. They need support and good for them if they now are finding the strength to stand up and complain at last.

Is it not possible for those lucky enough to be strong and confident to have a little compassion for those who are not and who often suffer indignities and difficulties because of it?

So they just sleep with anyone or take harassment  because because they have no confidence, can't say no? You don't know me or know the measure of my compassion any more than I know yours so please don't assume.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: AliceB on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 14:46PM
There are indeed two threads on this topic.  However, the other one is within the 'members only' part of the forum whereas this one, as it says at the top of the page, is public and open to everyone

Yes I realised that but I didn’t know that made a difference.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 14:50PM
Yes I realised that but I didn’t know that made a difference.

The difference is that some members may not feel comfortable posting their views and opinions in a public thread where they can be seen by anyone who chooses to look
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: AliceB on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 14:53PM
I see, thank you. I’ll restrict my posting to one thread though to avoid repetition.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Lila1410 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 14:55PM
(Members only doesn't mean really private anyway, as there are so many who never post anything.)
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 15:49PM
So they just sleep with anyone or take harassment  because because they have no confidence, can't say no?

Well, that is a rather bald way of saying something much more subtle, but the essence is the same.

Yes, there are women who sleep with someone and/or take harassment because they are lacking in confidence and self-worth. There are even women who are in abusive relationships and do not leave, or are persuaded to return and that isn't because they are strong and confident people, is it?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 15:50PM
I see, thank you. I’ll restrict my posting to one thread though to avoid repetition.

Which one? I prefer not to duplicate too.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 15:51PM
Well, that is a rather bald way of saying something much more subtle, but the essence is the same.

Yes, there are women who sleep with someone and/or take harassment because they are lacking in confidence and self-worth. There are even women who are in abusive relationships and do not leave, or are persuaded to return and that isn't because they are strong and confident people, is it?

But sometimes they are.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 16:03PM
There are always exceptions to every rule, but it is absolutely taken that the majority of women ( or men ) living in coercive relationships are there because they are being manipulated and most strong and confident people are not easily manipulated.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 16:11PM
OK
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Astoria on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 17:43PM
I can't remember words that were said to me or words I said yesterday accurately. How do the accusers recall things that were said years ago and report them word for word.

So many of the accusers also use the same words to describe their alleged ordeals namely 'lunged' and 'barged' How does a man 'lunge' at a woman in a lunchtime restaurant  meal?

Sounds like many accusers have got a WhatsApp group going on. "We've used 'lunged' and 'barged' a lot sisters. Anyone used 'thrusted' yet?"
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Myra on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 17:50PM
I can't remember words that were said to me or words I said yesterday accurately. How do the accusers recall things that were said years ago and report them word for word.

So many of the accusers also use the same words to describe their alleged ordeals namely 'lunged' and 'barged' How does a man 'lunge' at a woman in a lunchtime restaurant  meal?

Sounds like many accusers have got a WhatsApp group going on. "We've used 'lunged' and 'barged' a lot sisters. Anyone used 'thrusted' yet?"

Unless we've been lunged at, how would we know?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 17:51PM
I can't remember words that were said to me or words I said yesterday accurately. How do the accusers recall things that were said years ago and report them word for word.

So many of the accusers also use the same words to describe their alleged ordeals namely 'lunged' and 'barged' How does a man 'lunge' at a woman in a lunchtime restaurant  meal?

Sounds like many accusers have got a WhatsApp group going on. "We've used 'lunged' and 'barged' a lot sisters. Anyone used 'thrusted' yet?"

He didn't 'lunge' at her in a lunchtime restaurant.  You didn't read the article so how can you comment on it?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 17:53PM
I can't remember words that were said to me or words I said yesterday accurately. How do the accusers recall things that were said years ago and report them word for word.

So many of the accusers also use the same words to describe their alleged ordeals namely 'lunged' and 'barged' How does a man 'lunge' at a woman in a lunchtime restaurant  meal?

Sounds like many accusers have got a WhatsApp group going on. "We've used 'lunged' and 'barged' a lot sisters. Anyone used 'thrusted' yet?"

Could be!

Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Paul on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 17:55PM
Which one? I prefer not to duplicate too.

'Front Page' threads are open to the www. One doesn't need to be a forum member to see them.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 21:37PM
I can't remember words that were said to me or words I said yesterday accurately. How do the accusers recall things that were said years ago and report them word for word.

So many of the accusers also use the same words to describe their alleged ordeals namely 'lunged' and 'barged' How does a man 'lunge' at a woman in a lunchtime restaurant  meal?

Sounds like many accusers have got a WhatsApp group going on. "We've used 'lunged' and 'barged' a lot sisters. Anyone used 'thrusted' yet?"

I heard a radio phone in on LBC two days ago where a lady rang the studio to say that 30 years ago when she was a junior (accountant or solicitor ?) at a firm she worked for, this particular weekend morning she went into work and could wear what she liked.  There was only herself and a senior partner in the building that morning, and they got in the lift together.

When the lift started moving, the man remarked to her 'You fill those jeans well'  She said that she just froze and never answered him and that she had never been as frightened, as she had the whole day to work with him.

She said that now..30 years later why does she remember that - and she said she thought that the man who said it would probably have long forgotten it.

But her point was not that she was complaining that it had happened, but how it made her feel, and how thinking back to it and talking about it made her feel even to this day thirty years later/

The discussion around this programme was that Anne Robinson has said well if any kind of sexual abuse or touching would have happened to me in my day I would just have slapped is face, and ' why can't these young women complaining today' do just that ?

If this woman ( who was in her early twenties at the time, ( or anyone in a similar awkward situation) had done just that, wouldn't you think that the man could have got violent if he was slapped down ?

I know that some would like to know why women didn't report these things at the time, and why are they reporting them now..But the thing is - they are reporting them now.  It doesn't mean to say that things never happened.

Certain men who don't know the difference between a nice compliment or sexual innuendo will continue to treat women and girls in a bad way if they are continually allowed to go on without being checked.

It's good that something seems to be getting moving in making us all aware that there are proper ways to behave.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 21:45PM
Seriously??

If that's the worst thing she's had said to her in 30 years then she's a lucky woman.  It might have just been a harmless, if somewhat clumsy attempt at a compliment.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 21:51PM
I believed her when I listened to her speaking.  It might have been a harmless clumsy attempt at a compliment, and it might not. She was in her early twenties, he was much older. She obviously 'froze' when he said it, and she was scared. Her point was that she still remembered how really frightened she was.

It's ok to assume it was harmless, and maybe it was, but why should it be ok for a man to say that to a woman. Rather than 'I like the style of your jeans'  It was a personal remark .
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 21:52PM
A compliment is a personal remark though.

He obviously didn't say anything else, follow it up, or say anything similar on any other occasion.

Sorry, but I think it's ridiculous.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 21:56PM
It's what she thinks that counts
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 21:57PM
I think she needs a sense of perspective!
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 21:57PM
I'm afraid she's got problems if she's still troubled by a remark made 30 years ago. Silly flirty remark but not crude or vulgar which might have been upsetting.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 21:59PM
Each to their own train of thought
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:01PM
I'm afraid she's got problems if she's still troubled by a remark made 30 years ago. Silly flirty remark but not crude or vulgar which might have been upsetting.

Quite.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:07PM
As I said.. each to....
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Myra on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:08PM
As I said.. each to....

Each to indeed aron  :OK:
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:10PM
As I said.. each to....

Of course it is but if that was my daughter troubled by a fairly innocuous remark 30 years later I would be concerned!
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:10PM
I wish some of these seemingly hypersensitive women could talk to some victims of real sexual abuse - it might open their eyes a bit and make them realise that they haven't really suffered at all.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:12PM
I wish some of these seemingly hypersensitive women could talk to some victims of real sexual abuse - it might open their eyes a bit and make them realise that they haven't really suffered at all.

Or live in countries where women and girls are really sexually abused regularly.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:15PM
She didn't say she had been sexually abused. She said how uncomfortable it made her feel. She wasn't reporting it..just saying - if it had or had not been innocent..it was a bloke who unasked for, made her feel frightened. We can't judge her, she was just saying it like it was. Take it at face value.

Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:16PM
She didn't say she had been sexually abused. She said how uncomfortable it made her feel. She wasn't reporting it..just saying - if it had or had not been innocent..it was a bloke who unasked for, made her feel frightened. We can't judge her, she was just saying it like it was. Take it at face value.

I am taking it at face value and it was a flattering but crass remark made 30 years ago.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: AliceB on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:17PM
I’m wondering what message some of these posts are sending to women who might be viewing this topic with a view to joining.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:18PM
I didn't say she said she had been sexually abused.  I said I wished women like her could speak to real victims. 

Frightened? Really? 
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:19PM
She didn't sound flattered Beppy.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:19PM
I’m wondering what message some of these posts are sending to women who might be viewing this topic with a view to joining.

Depends on their point of view and life-experiences I would imagine
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:20PM
!YES. FRIGHTENED, REALLY SG !
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:21PM
Looks like you've got your shift lock on

Of what?  It's not like he tried to put a hand on her is it?  It's not like he followed it up afterwards.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:29PM
I’m wondering what message some of these posts are sending to women who might be viewing this topic with a view to joining.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Myra on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:30PM
I’m wondering what message some of these posts are sending to women who might be viewing this topic with a view to joining.

Alice I was thinking exactly the same.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:32PM
I’m wondering what message some of these posts are sending to women who might be viewing this topic with a view to joining.

That some members have no empathy and they can't understand that some people are more sensitive than others?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:37PM
That some members have no empathy and they can't understand that some people are more sensitive than others?

As I have already pointed out, either in this thread or the private one, having dealt with the victims of real sexual abuse, some of it so bad it would make your skin crawl to hear about it I have plenty of empathy and compassion where it is deserved.

Wailing about a clumsy, 30 year old remark is not deserving of it.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:41PM
She wasn't wailing - she was merely recounting the story.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:42PM
I wonder why.  The suggestion earlier was that she is still affected by the incident 30 years on . . .
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:50PM
I cannot imagine why you wonder why when posters have been explaining why all day!
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 22:57PM
thanks hdl
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 23:15PM
She wasn't wailing - she was merely recounting the story.
30 years later? Blimey I could write a book but I'm not going to.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 23:18PM
You don't understand why she's talking about it now?  Oh dear.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 23:21PM
30 years later? Blimey I could write a book but I'm not going to.

I thought as much.  You see I've been wondering why some women members have such harsh views and I think it's because they're disillusioned with men.  Some of us expect to be treated well because that's how we've always been treated.  Hearing about harassment, abuse, etc is shocking.  Some women here don't seem at all shocked, they seem to expect bad behaviour from men.

Somebody said earlier, was it you?  that women should count themselves lucky they don't live somewhere where they are raped.  I think that whoever said that has been terribly unlucky in their relationships with men.  That's sad.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: jock364 on Sun 05-Nov-2017 | 23:31PM
My goodness, so many women are so critical of other women. A hypersensitivity to certain behaviours of others can arise from issues in an earlier age, not even remembered.

As a man, I have learned to be clearly complimentary if that is what I intend and to think twice before I do so.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 08:14AM
I thought as much.  You see I've been wondering why some women members have such harsh views and I think it's because they're disillusioned with men.  Some of us expect to be treated well because that's how we've always been treated.  Hearing about harassment, abuse, etc is shocking.  Some women here don't seem at all shocked, they seem to expect bad behaviour from men.

Somebody said earlier, was it you?  that women should count themselves lucky they don't live somewhere where they are raped.  I think that whoever said that has been terribly unlucky in their relationships with men.  That's sad.

You made me laugh Robyn about the bad behaviour from men and disillusionment. It will be our 54th wedding anniversary in January, does that sound disillusioned to you?

Are you seriously expecting me to be shocked about a backhanded compliment given to a girl 30 years ago and because I'm not you see me as terribly unlucky in relationships? Nonsense.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 09:19AM
I thought as much.  You see I've been wondering why some women members have such harsh views and I think it's because they're disillusioned with men.  Some of us expect to be treated well because that's how we've always been treated.  Hearing about harassment, abuse, etc is shocking.  Some women here don't seem at all shocked, they seem to expect bad behaviour from men.

Somebody said earlier, was it you?  that women should count themselves lucky they don't live somewhere where they are raped.  I think that whoever said that has been terribly unlucky in their relationships with men.  That's sad.

Hmm - or not.

I'd say I've say I've probably heard a hell of a lot more about harassment and abuse of women, and worse stuff than you can imagine, than most people on here.  That's why I don't think a clumsy but throwaway comment is that shocking.

You clearly haven't been following this and the similar private thread too closely, otherwise you would have seen my post about having always worked in male-dominated environments -

I spent most of my working life in male-dominated environments where banter and risqué comments were commonplace.  In my experience no-one lost respect or felt disrespected because of that.  If anyone, male or female, overstepped the mark - because there were still marks - they were told so there and then and the matter was forgotten. 

I have to say I have on occasions been far more upset by bitchy comments from other women, than anything cheeky I've ever heard from a man.

I wouldn't tolerate what I believe to be bad behaviour from any man but I'd deal with it there and then.

I've never been treated other than exceptionally well, and that goes for men who are friends and family also.

And another reason your theory doesn't work - if some women were disillusioned with men wouldn't they seize every opportunity to criticise them?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Astoria on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 09:34AM
I am inclined to think that the women who are disillusioned with men are the ones who are accusing and reporting men for such trivia as making a rather flattering comment about them looking good in jeans decades ago (still in a trauma? What!) putting an arm around them in public places, making flippant, flirty comments and all this lunging and barging.

The women who love, respect and enjoy men are disillusioned with these women. Not with men.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 09:38AM
I am inclined to think that the women who are disillusioned with men are the ones who are accusing and reporting men for such trivia as making a rather flattering comment about them looking good in jeans decades ago (still in a trauma? What!) putting an arm around them in public places, making flippant, flirty comments and all this lunging and barging.

The women who love, respect and enjoy men are disillusioned with these women. Not with men.

 :tick:
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1667 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 11:33AM
:tick:

 :tick: + 1
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 11:41AM
I am inclined to think that the women who are disillusioned with men are the ones who are accusing and reporting men for such trivia as making a rather flattering comment about them looking good in jeans decades ago (still in a trauma? What!) putting an arm around them in public places, making flippant, flirty comments and all this lunging and barging.

The women who love, respect and enjoy men are disillusioned with these women. Not with men.

 :tick:
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: NZ on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 11:51AM
I don't think that  when I was 20 years old that I would have regarded being told by a man when alone in a lift with him that I filled out my jeans well,  as rather flattering.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Lila1410 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 11:55AM
No, nor would I. Would any 20-year-old?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 11:55AM
I don't think it would frighten too many either!
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: NZ on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 11:59AM
Alone in a lift and a sleazy comment made I would imagine would frighten some young women.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Myra on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 12:11PM
I don't think that  when I was 20 years old that I would have regarded being told by a man when alone in a lift with him that I filled out my jeans well,  as rather flattering.

I can't  imagine any decent man saying that to a woman in a lift.  That would have scared me.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 12:12PM
50 years ago perhaps although even then I think most women were more than capable or dealing with such a low-key situation.

I doubt many modern 20 year old women would turn a hair and in fact, would probably respond with the sort of put-down that would make the man wish he'd kept quiet!
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 12:27PM
A few weeks ago a female member posted that whilst on a bus, a man, a complete stranger to her, had told her she was a very attractive woman.  Some posters, including at least one who has posted here reviling the man in the life and his ilk, seemed to think that was great . . .
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:22PM
A few weeks ago a female member posted that whilst on a bus, a man, a complete stranger to her, had told her she was a very attractive woman.  Some posters, including at least one who has posted here reviling the man in the life and his ilk, seemed to think that was great . . .

Exactly!
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:33PM
A few weeks ago a female member posted that whilst on a bus, a man, a complete stranger to her, had told her she was a very attractive woman.  Some posters, including at least one who has posted here reviling the man in the life and his ilk, seemed to think that was great . . .

I think that's different from a sleazy comment alone in a lift at work by the boss, or whoever he was.

I've been chatted up on buses and it made me laugh.  A young man asked me if I was 'single' and I asked him how old he was - 38 he said.  I said I'm old enough to be your mother, I don't mind he said.  It cheered me up actually. 
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:34PM
Double standards?

Isn't it a far more risky situation?  How do you know a complete stranger is safe?  You don't,  and if he sees your friendliness as a come-on it's too late when he's followed you off the bus . . .
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:36PM
I was in a public place, I felt safe, his manner was very nice.  I didn't feel threatened.

If he'd followed me off the bus that would have changed everything.

I have been followed off a tube train late at night (when I was in my teens) and that was terrifying.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:37PM
I understand the Yorkshire Ripper's manner was very nice in public, as was Fred West's . . .
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:38PM
Why even talk like that SG?  I am recounting my own experiences, why try to mock them?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:42PM
Er -  I'm not mocking them.  I'm simply pointing out that just because a complete stranger's manner is 'nice' it doesn't follow that he is - as plenty of women have found to their cost.

In addition, you had not added your edit -


If he'd followed me off the bus that would have changed everything.

I have been followed off a tube train late at night (when I was in my teens) and that was terrifying.

when I posted.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:44PM
Yes but we have to use our own judgement and I judged him to be pleasant and it cheered me up.  That's my experience and I was recounting it.  Why pick at it?

Edits are to be expected.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:46PM
I didn't pick at it, I didn't mention it at all in fact.  What I said was -

I understand the Yorkshire Ripper's manner was very nice in public, as was Fred West's . . .

However I still find it difficult to understand how someone who reviles a man for making a clumsy but inoffensive remark to a woman who is know to him, enjoys advances from a completely unknown male on public transport.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: ellieni on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:53PM
I was in a public place, I felt safe, his manner was very nice.  I didn't feel threatened.

If he'd followed me off the bus that would have changed everything.

I have been followed off a tube train late at night (when I was in my teens) and that was terrifying.

I wouldn't have felt threatened by that either.  And just looked on it as a bit of Banter.
As, I think most of us are old enough to know the difference between, what is said as a joke. Or that said with an undercurrent of sleeze.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 13:56PM
I wouldn't have felt threatened by that either.  And just looked on it as a bit of Banter.
As, I think most of us are old enough to know the difference between, what is said as a joke. Or that said with an undercurrent of sleeze.

That's right Ellieni.  As I said, it cheered me up and gave me a laugh.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 14:50PM
I think that's different from a sleazy comment alone in a lift at work by the boss, or whoever he was.

I've been chatted up on buses and it made me laugh.  A young man asked me if I was 'single' and I asked him how old he was - 38 he said.  I said I'm old enough to be your mother, I don't mind he said.  It cheered me up actually.

So really, very similar to being chatted up in Westminster or any other working environment so I'm pleased you took it as it was meant to be taken as in today's climate many might have been affronted.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Astoria on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 15:33PM


However I still find it difficult to understand how someone who reviles a man for making a clumsy but inoffensive remark to a woman who is know to him, enjoys advances from a completely unknown male on public transport.

I'm finding quoting complicated so Robyn, you are saying that it was acceptable and flattering for a complete stranger on public transport to pay a compliment with no encouragement. He could have been part of a team, one to distract and the other to steal your wallet.

Yet, the women who are ruining male reputations, careers, lives, with their allegations were in safe environments, places of work, social gatherings, meetings, with other people around who they knew. They were not at risk.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 15:52PM
So really, very similar to being chatted up in Westminster or any other working environment so I'm pleased you took it as it was meant to be taken as in today's climate many might have been affronted.

No, not at all similar. I wasn't in the workplace and didn't feel threatened, humiliated or embarrassed.  The young man wasn't my boss so there was no imbalance of power in the encounter. 
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 15:53PM
I'm finding quoting complicated so Robyn, you are saying that it was acceptable and flattering for a complete stranger on public transport to pay a compliment with no encouragement. He could have been part of a team, one to distract and the other to steal your wallet.

Yet, the women who are ruining male reputations, careers, lives, with their allegations were in safe environments, places of work, social gatherings, meetings, with other people around who they knew. They were not at risk.

Women are not ruining men's reputations, ill-mannered men are doing that themselves.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Beppy on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 15:56PM
I wonder where all of these ill mannered men are? I don't know any so are they only men in positions of power?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 15:57PM
No, not at all similar. I wasn't in the workplace and didn't feel threatened, humiliated or embarrassed.  The young man wasn't my boss so there was no imbalance of power in the encounter.

No you weren't in the workplace, you encouraged a complete stranger who could have taken your friendliness as a 'come-on' and followed you off the bus with goodness knows what consequences, or as Astoria has pointed out could have been distracting you whilst his mate stole your bag or purse

Someone you don't know, and whose intentions you don't know creates a huge imbalance
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:23PM
You have more stamina than I, Robyn.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:32PM
No you weren't in the workplace, you encouraged a complete stranger who could have taken your friendliness as a 'come-on' and followed you off the bus with goodness knows what consequences, or as Astoria has pointed out could have been distracting you whilst his mate stole your bag or purse

Someone you don't know, and whose intentions you don't know creates a huge imbalance

I encouraged a complete stranger with my friendliness?  Where you there?  Good grief.

Where is this analysis of my story going?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:32PM
I'm not going to argue the toss with you Robyn.

I think we should return to the topic don't you?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:33PM
Why this constant questioning of my story and me?  Is there a point to it?

I see you deleted your post and replaced it.  OK.  Enough.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: NZ on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:40PM
 This is getting silly.  In the UK  in the part of the country where my family live,when riding public transport I talk to strangers,  I very much doubt that the strangers to whom I talk to take it as a 'come on' and neither do I expect one of them to be distracting me so as to steal my wallet or follow me when I get off of the bus.   But thirty years ago if I had been a young woman of 20years old  and my boss made a crass comment when I was alone in a lift with him, I may have been worried/upset or even frightened. Two very different stories.

Sorry. OK enough.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:42PM
Indeed, NZ.  I am a frequent user of public transport and talk to a lot of people, more so nowadays because I have a fluffy little dog who goes with me everywhere and people come up to us to chat to her.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: ellieni on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:43PM
I encouraged a complete stranger with my friendliness?  Where you there?  Good grief.

Where is this analysis of my story going?

Going nowhere as I see it .
 You took it as a bit of banter, as I would have done , in the incident that you talked about . I love banter ,and  it often cheers me up too.

The world would be a much, duller place with it .  I have often indulged in it with strangers in Asdas   :) 
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Astoria on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:44PM
So what do we have here? A stranger on a bus asks if you are single <chat up alert> You asked how old he was <responsive chat up alert> He tells you and you respond as you feel flattered that you're old enough to be his Mum. He says he doesn't mind <serious chat up alert> Frivolous flirting with a stranger on a bus. Perhaps you should have reported this incident to the bus company. He could have been a stalker on a bus.

If this same complimentary frivolous chat up happened to you in the workplace by a man with 'power' who you knew then you'd feel threatened, humiliated or embarrassed. Then perhaps make a complaint?

I don't get it.

Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:46PM
Did I say I was flirting with him?  I wasn't.  Anything else you want to know?
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest1764 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:47PM
Going nowhere as I see it .
 You took it as a bit of banter, as I would have done , in the incident that you talked about . I love banter ,and  it often cheers me up too.

The world would be a much, duller place with it .  I have often indulged in it with strangers in Asdas   :)

Yes, I went to the local shops one day and counted up the number of people I chatted to on the way there and back.  There were nine.  Mostly because of my little dog.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:50PM
If people cannot immediately see tthe difference between a bit of chat on a bus in a public place and a sleazy slime ball of a boss making personal comments trapped in a lift, it is not worth continuing to explain.
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: SG on Mon 06-Nov-2017 | 16:52PM
Moderator Comment

In which case perhaps everyone should return to discussing the topic - "Harassment, Parliament and the BBC"
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: Myra on Thu 09-Nov-2017 | 13:25PM
Good for her!  :bravo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s08JBPwCko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s08JBPwCko)
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Mon 13-Nov-2017 | 22:16PM
Round of applause for Jo..
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: guest534 on Tue 14-Nov-2017 | 08:32AM
Absolutely.

Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: AprilRose on Tue 14-Nov-2017 | 09:02AM
 :offtopic:  sorry, only just read this thread

many years ago when I was younger, well in my 40's, I got my bottom pinched on a water bus in Venice. Although I ignored the young Italian male (hubby was with me) I felt rather flattered  >b< well it was well known in those days that Italian men often did this but it still took me by surprise. I didn't complain but hubby and I had a good laugh about it afterwards, often teasing me about it in later years.  :giggle:
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: harry on Fri 03-Sep-2021 | 23:56PM
Round of applause for Jo..
Horrible unfunny person ..
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: aron on Wed 08-Sep-2021 | 18:24PM
You think so..

I think she's funny
Title: Re: Harassment, Parliament and the BBC
Post by: HarryH on Fri 10-Sep-2021 | 07:46AM
Me too. But then I am a different Harry.
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