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Poll

Should Scotland vote for Independence from Great Britain?

Yes
7 (20.6%)
No
27 (79.4%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Voting closed: Fri 16-May-2014 | 16:43PM

Topic: Should Scotland vote for Independence from Great Britain?

CeeCee on Tue 29-Apr-2014 | 15:39PM
Reply #15

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I don't care very much if the Scots gain independence, but there are one or two caveats to this

1. Salmond and his lot seem to have the idea that they can wangle their way into keeping everything British that they reckon they can't do without - No! It's either complete independence or nothing. They should not be allowed to cherry pick, thereby turning into a parasite state:

2. They won't be automatically admitted into the EU, so let's close the border and require all residents this side of it whose place of birth is Scotland to either return to their Homeland forthwith or face deportation, or apply immediately for British citizenship. Those who actually already reside in their Homeland should be made aware that their British Passport would no longer be valid

So what if  Cameron's proposed vote on membership of the EU comes down in favour of Britain leaving, the English too will have the borders to Europe closed, as well as economic restrictions.  If it is OK for Britain to vote to leave Europe why is it not OK for Scotland to vote for their Independence too?
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slobwise on Tue 29-Apr-2014 | 16:44PM
Reply #16

Offline slobwise

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I don't care very much if the Scots gain independence, but there are one or two caveats to this

1. Salmond and his lot seem to have the idea that they can wangle their way into keeping everything British that they reckon they can't do without - No! It's either complete independence or nothing. They should not be allowed to cherry pick, thereby turning into a parasite state:

2. They won't be automatically admitted into the EU, so let's close the border and require all residents this side of it whose place of birth is Scotland to either return to their Homeland forthwith or face deportation, or apply immediately for British citizenship. Those who actually already reside in their Homeland should be made aware that their British Passport would no longer be valid

That is exactly the type of small minded synapse chunder that, when they've stopped laughing, encourages Scots to look at the 'Union' is a less than positive light.

Thankfully it is recognised that the above represents, not so much a minority view, but a dwindling state of mental being far removed from the understanding of modern politics which will come into play at the appropriate time.

At least UKIP provide a place of refuge for such views so that there is less loneliness for such wayward spirits.

Nice flag by the way!
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magellan on Tue 29-Apr-2014 | 16:59PM
Reply #17

Online magellan

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I agree with you, synapse, but don't you think the very word 'independence' is outdated, when we're so obviously dependent on each other in the new global order of things?
Think first, write after.
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slobwise on Tue 29-Apr-2014 | 17:14PM
Reply #18

Offline slobwise

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I agree with you, synapse, but don't you think the very word 'independence' is outdated, when we're so obviously dependent on each other in the new global order of things?

Yes, I see what you mean but most Scots I have spoken to can easily envisage remaining a part of a connected global economy and are, mercifully, free of such parochial attitudes as expressed prior.

Political and economic independence from Westminster is though best expressed by the term and less prone to misunderstanding.

We will continue to supply England with Shortbread and whisky

:)
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LouisJadot on Tue 29-Apr-2014 | 21:32PM
Reply #19

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Interesting Program on about the Independence Debate with Jackie Bird talking to the Woman of Scotland, and she was saying that there is more women voters than men in Scotland and the way the debate is progressing it will be the women who will be the deciders in the coming referendum.
Not sure how that works out? :hmm: 
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AzBuKa on Tue 29-Apr-2014 | 21:54PM
Reply #20

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Firstly, I readily acknowledge the right of any State to true independence, so that means that under the terms of the title of this thread, the answer to the question is "Yes, they should vote," but the terms of their Independence, should they vote in favour of it, should be made clear.

In my opinion it means that they should expect to relinquish all forms of dependence upon the disabled rump they leave behind and understand that from that point on they become a foreign Country with a common land border with England. Native Scots this side of that border become aliens and therefore should expect to be treated as such. Their British/European passports will no longer be valid and they will no longer be entiitled to claim British Citizenship.

I would go so far as to say that any Scottish personnel serving in the Armed Forces or England-based Civil Service should be discharged and encouraged to return to their homeland and seek employment there. After all. the newly independent State is going to need them.

From that point on, I guess the natural process will be for diplomatic moves towards identifying areas of mutual interest (such as, for instance a common defence treaty and trade agreements, etc)

In other words, if they gain independence then the message should be clearly made, "So long, it's been nice knowing you. Now you're on your own. There's the door."

That is whatIndependence is (not the anodyne mish-mash Salmond seeks) and that is what Whitehall's message should clearly be.

   
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jock364 on Tue 29-Apr-2014 | 22:03PM
Reply #21

Offline jock364

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2. They won't be automatically admitted into the EU, so let's close the border and require all residents this side of it whose place of birth is Scotland to either return to their Homeland forthwith or face deportation, or apply immediately for British citizenship. Those who actually already reside in their Homeland should be made aware that their British Passport would no longer be valid
Although, in terms of culture, I most readily identify with Scotland, my fifty year sojourn in England allows me to happily forsake a Scottish passport.

I am sure the SNP, a party which welcomes and values cultural diversity, would never consider reciprocating.
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AzBuKa on Tue 29-Apr-2014 | 22:24PM
Reply #22

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Quote
If it is OK for Britain to vote to leave Europe why is it not OK for Scotland to vote for their Independence too?

I totally agree with the sentiment behind this (see my previous post). In fact, if Cameron remains true to his word, I'll be first to the ballot box with a "Yes" vote.
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slobwise on Tue 29-Apr-2014 | 22:31PM
Reply #23

Offline slobwise

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Firstly, I readily acknowledge the right of any State to true independence, so that means that under the terms of the title of this thread, the answer to the question is "Yes, they should vote," but the terms of their Independence, should they vote in favour of it, should be made clear.

In my opinion it means that they should expect to relinquish all forms of dependence upon the disabled rump they leave behind and understand that from that point on they become a foreign Country with a common land border with England. Native Scots this side of that border become aliens and therefore should expect to be treated as such. Their British/European passports will no longer be valid and they will no longer be entiitled to claim British Citizenship.

I would go so far as to say that any Scottish personnel serving in the Armed Forces or England-based Civil Service should be discharged and encouraged to return to their homeland and seek employment there. After all. the newly independent State is going to need them.

From that point on, I guess the natural process will be for diplomatic moves towards identifying areas of mutual interest (such as, for instance a common defence treaty and trade agreements, etc)

In other words, if they gain independence then the message should be clearly made, "So long, it's been nice knowing you. Now you're on your own. There's the door."

That is whatIndependence is (not the anodyne mish-mash Salmond seeks) and that is what Whitehall's message should clearly be.

 

This is a disordered stream of thinking from the last century, it makes Mugabe seem coherent in comparison.

Your potty little idea that Scots working in the civil service be sent home is laughable, hard to imagine the compensation payout levels for unfair dismissal.

I sincerely hope we are to be treated to many more of your political views as we head towards the Euro elections. This forum could do with a laugh.

By jingo...
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magellan on Wed 30-Apr-2014 | 07:23AM
Reply #24

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>> If it is OK for Britain to vote to leave Europe why is it not OK for Scotland to vote for their Independence too? <<

I totally agree with the sentiment behind this (see my previous post). In fact, if Cameron remains true to his word, I'll be first to the ballot box with a "Yes" vote.

Who said it wasn't? I totally support  the right for Scots to hold a referendum. I just hope they have the good sense to vote the way I would.
Think first, write after.
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slobwise on Tue 03-Jun-2014 | 00:58AM
Reply #25

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Along the lines of 'You couldn't make it up'...

The coalition initially excluded Devo-Max from the referendum and resorted to a welter of dodgy statistics and fabricated scare stories. When that appeared to backfire they now start offering 'Devo-Max' as a bribe to vote 'No'.

On one hand more undecided Scots are going to look at this muddled strategy from the land of UKIP and have increased doubts about remaining under the yoke of people that seriously fail to underestimate the Scottish political nous, on the other Alex Salmond is going to look, by far, the cleverest strategist of the lot of them so maybe...

If they all sat down to play poker Salmons would be the only one going home with a shirt on his back.
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Lila1410 on Tue 03-Jun-2014 | 06:51AM
Reply #26

Offline Lila1410

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Interesting Program on about the Independence Debate with Jackie Bird talking to the Woman of Scotland, and she was saying that there is more women voters than men in Scotland and the way the debate is progressing it will be the women who will be the deciders in the coming referendum.
Not sure how that works out? :hmm:

Is that because more men are likely to move away for work? And the differences in life expectancy?
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magellan on Tue 03-Jun-2014 | 08:08AM
Reply #27

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under the yoke of people that seriously fail to underestimate the Scottish political nous

Bit harsh, what? I don't see many Highland cattle ploughing English fields.
Think first, write after.
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slobwise on Tue 03-Jun-2014 | 10:35AM
Reply #28

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Typo correction;

"...under the yoke of people that seriously underestimate the Scottish political nous..."
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Oulton Jim on Wed 04-Jun-2014 | 08:13AM
Reply #29

Offline Oulton Jim

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A revised forecast from the IFS reports that the scots would face higher taxes if they go independent. link
KEEP CALM! [High blood pressure isn't good -at our age .....]
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